FULL TRANSCRIPT
Skye:
A little bit about our guest. I’m really, really excited to have Michael here for a couple of reasons, one, because he’s super knowledgeable on this subject and fun to talk to, and I know that we’ll have a great conversation because we have similar thoughts about just the value that the college sporting experience has in the lives of our children. And I’m also really excited to introduce many of you to Jungo Sports, the app that he and his team have created. I don’t usually do a lot of promotion on this site if you’ve listened to my webinars before. Very rarely do I promote actual products. This is one I’m really excited to promote because it’s serving a great need, it’s extremely affordable, and it has the potential to really support our children in their journey and be a fantastic tool.
So I’m happy to support and talk about the company, and I do hope that he’ll explain more about the app throughout this conversation. You can find out more about it at jungo-sports.com, and then the app is downloadable in Android and for the iPhone. And you can find links to that at their website. So with that in mind, I always want to reference one of our soccer parent value statements as we dive into these just to give us a great frame of reference. And our value statement at Soccer Parenting about love of the game is perfect for this conversation. So we acknowledge that every child has varying levels of athletic potential, and we seek to establish an environment where all children can play youth soccer because they love to play, not because they’re chasing a college scholarship or professional contract. Those things can happen, and they’ll be great, and obviously that’s the topic and the framework of this conversation today.
But at the end of the day, we really want our children to fall in love with this game that has given us so much and has provided so much for our families as well. Okay, with that in mind, I am going to start my screen share, and Michael, let’s chime in.
Michael:
Hey, everybody.
Skye:
Okay, there we go. So it’s just our screens, right? Sorry, I need to ask if somebody can maybe pop into the chat and let me know. I feel like it’s okay, but like I said, I’m new to this. Okay, all good. Thank you, Joan and many others. All of those that are chiming in, thank you. Okay, so let’s dive in. Thank you so much for being here. Like I said, I’m really excited to have this conversation. Because of our previous conversations, we’re definitely are on the same page with the college process for children. In an effort to support so many of the parents that are here right now, can you just answer this large question? Is there a college for every child that dreams of playing collegiately?
Michael:
I would say yes, and I say that because of just the varying opportunities that are out there from the division one level and traditionally D2, D3, NAIA junior college programs. But what I’d also like to add is the club side of things. Something that’s not often explored for players that still want to enjoy the game after their competitive youth experience, but they don’t want to have the commitment level of playing for a college program. Colleges do provide club teams that you can also compete with.
Skye:
Yeah. A number of players from my daughter’s team are playing collegiately because … And it’s pretty competitive too. And they’re playing for their clubs. It’s because they knew they wanted to go to a very specific state school. That was their dream, and they did not want to play college soccer there, or they didn’t make the team, they weren’t good enough, or they just didn’t want that commitment level. But they still are having a great collegiate sporting experience. I mean, they’re traveling and playing with the club. I mean, it’s certainly not the same in terms of the level, but I mean, some of these club teams are really competitive too.
Michael:
Absolutely.
Skye:
So just as we’re framing the conversation and starting a little bit large scale and coming back to the nuance of the college process, can you just along those lines, we talked about club, can you give some information to parents listening about just the various platforms or divisions that are available for children as they’re looking down this road of playing collegiately? So often we focus on division one and we’re so familiar with that, but let’s chat about some of the other opportunities.
Michael:
Yeah, I’ll distill this down just a little bit. A good example, so division one programs are for the most part think along the lines of bigger schools, bigger budgets and very big commitment levels. And so if you’re a player of the division one level, you can consider that to be your full-time job. The division two level, that platform is, for lack of a better term, is intermediate in between division one and division three. Smaller schools, smaller budgets. In terms of time commitment, it’s very similar to the division one level. Division three is very much more focused towards a balanced approach in terms of academics, the school experience as well as the competitive environment. Off-season’s voluntary in terms of what they participate in.
NAIA programs I would equate very similar to division two programs, and then obviously junior college programs are a little bit different as a two-year program. However, the level of competition is quite high with a number of those programs for a variety of reasons.
Skye:
And then within every division there’s such a difference, like playing division one college soccer at Clemson is going to be different than playing that at George Mason. Can you just give a little bit of parameters on maybe the different conferences for parents to understand? I mean, these happen within every level and division as well. Just to get some more clarity on that process.
Michael:
Absolutely. I mean, within the division one platform you have … They’re shying away from it, but still, they’re considered to be a Power Five conference, so to speak, conferences such as ACC, Pac-12, SEC, Big Ten, those types of conferences. And typically, they’re at the top of the food chain in regards to the type of players that they’re going after or attracting. And so if you look at rosters or programs within those conferences, you’ll see a lot of national team level and quality type players on their rosters. They identify players at a very early stage, so those types of conferences are identifying players. They’re looking at the top fives at the moment. So they immediately begin that process in freshmen and sophomore years of the top players in the country.
And that environment the rigor is quite high, and the other conferences, D1, whether it’s the second tier or third tier type D1 programs, the competitive expectations are the same, but the type and the caliber of player that they’re attracting is a little different, but the level is still high certainly, but it’s really tough to chase down those top conference programs.
Skye:
Yeah. For sure. And that has given me some insight. So my daughter is playing division three college right now. And I in my mind knew, “Oh, these top programs in division one,” and I had a good frame of reference personally just because I’m so familiar with the division one programs. I coach there, I play there, I’m friends with a lot of people that are still coaching there. So that was my go-to place that I was familiar with, but division three I was like, “I don’t know about that school versus that school.” And so I was able to use the conferences and their rankings to say, “Oh, well, this is probably a pretty good division for this school because they’re in this more competitive conference.” How can parents find out that data for schools along the way?
Michael:
There’s quite a few resources that are out there. You can certainly go to the NCAA website and you can look at rankings and it’ll break it down by conference. You can do that as well for NAIA as well as junior colleges. There are other websites for those divisions that do break that information down. I would highly advise that. I think that’s a really important part of the process as they start to develop their criteria in terms of schools they would like to pursue, but I do think that’s very important.
And to your point about the differences with the Pac-12s and the example you gave of George Mason and just real brief, my daughter, who also played collegiately, did have an experience where she was looking at a non-Power conference team as well as a Power conference team. She chose a Power conference, and I have to tell you, it was quite the challenge for her. It wasn’t quite the experience she was expecting, whereas she could have probably experienced a little greater success in a different conference or maybe even a different level program.
Skye:
I mean, this is a big topic, and I do want to dive into this because you and I have both had such interesting experiences with our children and their collegiate journey, if you will. So it’s so hard for parents, and I know we’re going to talk in the future about getting a good sense of where your child falls on the scale of player and what would be a good conference for them or a good environment for them. A lot of this comes down to mentality as well.
I competed at the division one college, and there were athletes that walked on every year that ended up getting really some good playing time, and then there were others that didn’t. And oftentimes the difference was just their mentality, their willingness to just keep fighting and also maybe just some general athleticism. So maybe they weren’t the greatest soccer player and they get heavily recruited, but they’re a great athlete and had a great mentality and could fight for some playing time and were willing to sit on the bench.
And then there were others that came in to these programs where I was playing that just really didn’t make it and quit right after the season or mid-way through the season because it wasn’t meeting their expectations as an athlete. They wanted more playing time. They thought it would be more fun, and they just didn’t have the right mentality. A lot of this is if you have the right mentality, if you are going to go to one of these top programs to be able to fight and battle and know that playing time might not happen or that the environment may not be … The environment will be very different, maybe more challenging, more rigorous in different ways.
I think a lot of mistakes get made from athletes who are aspiring to play at the top level like top division one programs, which sounds like maybe what happened with your daughter, when really they’d be better suited to play a lower level. Can you maybe just dive in just a little bit more if you don’t mind just some experiences that you had? And then I’ll share a little bit about my daughter’s experience. Maybe considerations for parents to have as they’re trying to find which level within a division that their child might be playing.
Michael:
Absolutely. First and foremost, I think it’s important for the player to know thyself, to be introspective and really be critical about their level of commitment and their love and passion for the game. Because if you want to play college soccer, there is a grind associated with that. And especially at the top level, it is a full-time job. So not only your full-time is competing on the college soccer stage, but you’re also trying to be a student as well and you’re also trying to have a life as well. So it’s very challenging in a lot of different ways. And so if you don’t have a certain mindset to compete at that level, there are other alternatives that you can look at, but I think that’s really important.
One of the unique features within our platform is not only understanding to know yourself, but getting feedback from coaches that results in pointing you in the right direction for schools that would be a good fit. And I think that’s what’s really unique, and that’s one of the biggest challenges on this side of things it’s that information is coming from a select few who are advising players and families when the reality is there’s extended opportunities that are out there if you just know where to look. And I think that’s the key.
Skye:
A little bit about our guest. I’m really, really excited to have Michael here for a couple of reasons, one, because he’s super knowledgeable on this subject and fun to talk to, and I know that we’ll have a great conversation because we have similar thoughts about just the value that the college sporting experience has in the lives of our children. And I’m also really excited to introduce many of you to Jungo Sports, the app that he and his team have created. I don’t usually do a lot of promotion on this site if you’ve listened to my webinars before. Very rarely do I promote actual products. This is one I’m really excited to promote because it’s serving a great need, it’s extremely affordable, and it has the potential to really support our children in their journey and be a fantastic tool.
So I’m happy to support and talk about the company, and I do hope that he’ll explain more about the app throughout this conversation. You can find out more about it at jungo-sports.com, and then the app is downloadable in Android and for the iPhone. And you can find links to that at their website. So with that in mind, I always want to reference one of our soccer parent value statements as we dive into these just to give us a great frame of reference. And our value statement at Soccer Parenting about love of the game is perfect for this conversation. So we acknowledge that every child has varying levels of athletic potential, and we seek to establish an environment where all children can play youth soccer because they love to play, not because they’re chasing a college scholarship or professional contract. Those things can happen, and they’ll be great, and obviously that’s the topic and the framework of this conversation today.
But at the end of the day, we really want our children to fall in love with this game that has given us so much and has provided so much for our families as well. Okay, with that in mind, I am going to start my screen share, and Michael, let’s chime in.
Michael:
Hey, everybody.
Skye:
Okay, there we go. So it’s just our screens, right? Sorry, I need to ask if somebody can maybe pop into the chat and let me know. I feel like it’s okay, but like I said, I’m new to this. Okay, all good. Thank you, Joan and many others. All of those that are chiming in, thank you. Okay, so let’s dive in. Thank you so much for being here. Like I said, I’m really excited to have this conversation. Because of our previous conversations, we’re definitely are on the same page with the college process for children.
In an effort to support so many of the parents that are here right now, can you just answer this large question? Is there a college for every child that dreams of playing collegiately?
Michael:
I would say yes, and I say that because of just the varying opportunities that are out there from the division one level and traditionally D2, D3, NAIA junior college programs. But what I’d also like to add is the club side of things. Something that’s not often explored for players that still want to enjoy the game after their competitive youth experience, but they don’t want to have the commitment level of playing for a college program. Colleges do provide club teams that you can also compete with.
Skye:
Yeah. A number of players from my daughter’s team are playing collegiately because … And it’s pretty competitive too. And they’re playing for their clubs. It’s because they knew they wanted to go to a very specific state school. That was their dream, and they did not want to play college soccer there, or they didn’t make the team, they weren’t good enough, or they just didn’t want that commitment level. But they still are having a great collegiate sporting experience. I mean, they’re traveling and playing with the club. I mean, it’s certainly not the same in terms of the level, but I mean, some of these club teams are really competitive too.
Michael:
Absolutely.
Skye:
So just as we’re framing the conversation and starting a little bit large scale and coming back to the nuance of the college process, can you just along those lines, we talked about club, can you give some information to parents listening about just the various platforms or divisions that are available for children as they’re looking down this road of playing collegiately? So often we focus on division one and we’re so familiar with that, but let’s chat about some of the other opportunities.
Michael:
Yeah, I’ll distill this down just a little bit. A good example, so division one programs are for the most part think along the lines of bigger schools, bigger budgets and very big commitment levels. And so if you’re a player of the division one level, you can consider that to be your full-time job. The division two level, that platform is, for lack of a better term, is intermediate in between division one and division three. Smaller schools, smaller budgets. In terms of time commitment, it’s very similar to the division one level. Division three is very much more focused towards a balanced approach in terms of academics, the school experience as well as the competitive environment. Off-season’s voluntary in terms of what they participate in.
NAIA programs I would equate very similar to division two programs, and then obviously junior college programs are a little bit different as a two-year program. However, the level of competition is quite high with a number of those programs for a variety of reasons.
Skye:
And then within every division there’s such a difference, like playing division one college soccer at Clemson is going to be different than playing that at George Mason. Can you just give a little bit of parameters on maybe the different conferences for parents to understand? I mean, these happen within every level and division as well. Just to get some more clarity on that process.
Michael:
Absolutely. I mean, within the division one platform you have … They’re shying away from it, but still, they’re considered to be a Power Five conference, so to speak, conferences such as ACC, Pac-12, SEC, Big Ten, those types of conferences. And typically, they’re at the top of the food chain in regards to the type of players that they’re going after or attracting. And so if you look at rosters or programs within those conferences, you’ll see a lot of national team level and quality type players on their rosters. They identify players at a very early stage, so those types of conferences are identifying players. They’re looking at the top fives at the moment. So they immediately begin that process in freshmen and sophomore years of the top players in the country.
And that environment the rigor is quite high, and the other conferences, D1, whether it’s the second tier or third tier type D1 programs, the competitive expectations are the same, but the type and the caliber of player that they’re attracting is a little different, but the level is still high certainly, but it’s really tough to chase down those top conference programs.
Skye:
Yeah. For sure. And that has given me some insight. So my daughter is playing division three college right now. And I in my mind knew, “Oh, these top programs in division one,” and I had a good frame of reference personally just because I’m so familiar with the division one programs. I coach there, I play there, I’m friends with a lot of people that are still coaching there. So that was my go-to place that I was familiar with, but division three I was like, “I don’t know about that school versus that school.” And so I was able to use the conferences and their rankings to say, “Oh, well, this is probably a pretty good division for this school because they’re in this more competitive conference.” How can parents find out that data for schools along the way?
Michael:
There’s quite a few resources that are out there. You can certainly go to the NCAA website and you can look at rankings and it’ll break it down by conference. You can do that as well for NAIA as well as junior colleges. There are other websites for those divisions that do break that information down. I would highly advise that. I think that’s a really important part of the process as they start to develop their criteria in terms of schools they would like to pursue, but I do think that’s very important.
And to your point about the differences with the Pac-12s and the example you gave of George Mason and just real brief, my daughter, who also played collegiately, did have an experience where she was looking at a non-Power conference team as well as a Power conference team. She chose a Power conference, and I have to tell you, it was quite the challenge for her. It wasn’t quite the experience she was expecting, whereas she could have probably experienced a little greater success in a different conference or maybe even a different level program.
Skye:
I mean, this is a big topic, and I do want to dive into this because you and I have both had such interesting experiences with our children and their collegiate journey, if you will. So it’s so hard for parents, and I know we’re going to talk in the future about getting a good sense of where your child falls on the scale of player and what would be a good conference for them or a good environment for them. A lot of this comes down to mentality as well.
I competed at the division one college, and there were athletes that walked on every year that ended up getting really some good playing time, and then there were others that didn’t. And oftentimes the difference was just their mentality, their willingness to just keep fighting and also maybe just some general athleticism. So maybe they weren’t the greatest soccer player and they get heavily recruited, but they’re a great athlete and had a great mentality and could fight for some playing time and were willing to sit on the bench.
And then there were others that came in to these programs where I was playing that just really didn’t make it and quit right after the season or mid-way through the season because it wasn’t meeting their expectations as an athlete. They wanted more playing time. They thought it would be more fun, and they just didn’t have the right mentality. A lot of this is if you have the right mentality, if you are going to go to one of these top programs to be able to fight and battle and know that playing time might not happen or that the environment may not be … The environment will be very different, maybe more challenging, more rigorous in different ways.
I think a lot of mistakes get made from athletes who are aspiring to play at the top level like top division one programs, which sounds like maybe what happened with your daughter, when really they’d be better suited to play a lower level. Can you maybe just dive in just a little bit more if you don’t mind just some experiences that you had? And then I’ll share a little bit about my daughter’s experience. Maybe considerations for parents to have as they’re trying to find which level within a division that their child might be playing.
Michael:
Absolutely. First and foremost, I think it’s important for the player to know thyself, to be introspective and really be critical about their level of commitment and their love and passion for the game. Because if you want to play college soccer, there is a grind associated with that. And especially at the top level, it is a full-time job. So not only your full-time is competing on the college soccer stage, but you’re also trying to be a student as well and you’re also trying to have a life as well. So it’s very challenging in a lot of different ways. And so if you don’t have a certain mindset to compete at that level, there are other alternatives that you can look at, but I think that’s really important.
One of the unique features within our platform is not only understanding to know yourself, but getting feedback from coaches that results in pointing you in the right direction for schools that would be a good fit. And I think that’s what’s really unique, and that’s one of the biggest challenges on this side of things it’s that information is coming from a select few who are advising players and families when the reality is there’s extended opportunities that are out there if you just know where to look. And I think that’s the key.
Skye:
Yeah. And that’s what’s so great about the Jungo app, parents that are listening, is that you get a sense of all of these schools that are available. And I wanted to quickly tell my daughter’s story because her mentality for playing at college was that she wanted to play. She’s like, “I want playing time. I have four more years to play college soccer. I want this to be the most fun experience possible, and I don’t want to go to a school … I want to go to a school that’s challenging and I want to have to battle a little bit, but I want to feel pretty confident that I am going to be able to play a lot because I love the game, and I don’t have the mentality that I want to go into battle.” And I was hoping [Kelly 00:13:34] could chime in here. She has class right now. I wanted her to tell her story.
She ended up going to division three to a school I had never heard of. She’s in Emerson College in Boston, and she played every minute of every game as a freshman. And she’s a captain as a sophomore. She’s never been a captain on any team and she’s always aspired to be. And so she’s living this really great experience because she opted to play at a school … You talk about know yourself. She wasn’t afraid to say, “I’m not chasing something. I want to play, and I want to find a school that I love with a coach that I respect and an environment that I like where I can play.” And I feel pretty guaranteed about that for what that’s worth.
The concept was that I had never heard of this school, and I knew that she wanted to go to school in a city and she found it. So let’s talk about broadening the search. And first, I want to talk about … We sort of talked about going outside division one and that being an option and looking at other schools. Can you talk about broadening it from a geography standpoint? And then let’s chime in with the role that coaches play in narrowing or expanding our search and what we need to be thinking about.
Michael:
Yeah. I think the first part of that is, in fact, what resources are at your disposal to help identify and expand your awareness of schools and opportunities that are out there. So again, not to have a shameless plug, but getting the feedback within our tool pulls in schools nationwide in terms of what would be within your wheelhouse, schools that may find you to be an attractive prospect. And then from there you can start filtering based on your criteria, whether it’s the division, the state, whatever it might be to start developing your list of potential schools to start your communications with.
So again, there’s a lot of different resources that are out there, ours just being one, but I think the unique piece is, “Okay, based on the feedback from my coaches, what types of schools should I actually be looking at?” I think that’s the most important piece.
Skye:
Yeah. Okay. Let’s talk about what sometimes happens unintentionally from coaches. When you go to your club coach and you ask for recommendations, as a club coach, and I’ve experienced this myself, we know our schools. If I had an athlete that came to me as a club coach that wanted to go division three before my experience with my daughter, I wouldn’t have had a lot of spots, and I would have limited his or her search unintentionally just because of my lack of knowledge. Does that happen a lot? Are you seeing that trend, or is that something that you would agree is an issue that we need to try to resolve?
Michael:
No, absolutely. I think that’s one of the problems that we’re also trying to solve is that you have one or two individuals within clubs that the weight is on their shoulders to guide kids towards schools that would be a good fit. However, there are so many schools across the country. It’s impossible for us to have all that information and knowledge. And so that was one of the keys for us was like, “How do we put together something where the feedback they’re receiving results in something meaningful in terms of these are types of schools that would be a good fit?” And to be able to do that nationwide … I mean, I live in the western region in Idaho.
And while I’m comfortable recommending schools to kids within my region that I’m very familiar with, 70% of the schools are east of the Mississippi. So we’ve been able to capture that information and pull it in, in a meaningful way that really helps guide student athlete towards schools that are going to be a good fit for them.
Skye:
I’m going to try to explain. There’s some questions here. And I encourage people to pop your questions into the question box. The chat is great if you want to keep that going, but I’m not monitoring the chat. So if it’s a question you want me to try to bring forward here, put it in the Q&A.
So the app provides an opportunity for athletes to ask for feedback from all the coaches that they interact with, whether it be high school, club, somebody that they’ve had some training with, whomever. And then they can take that feedback and it gets aggregated and provide some ideas to broaden the search for an athlete so that they can maybe see and find and become aware of some schools that are not necessarily falling into the normal path of what they might be aware of based on state schools or recommendations from coaches where athletes or previous teammates of the club have gone to play. Is that a good summation of [crosstalk 00:18:21]?
Michael:
That’s fantastic. Thank you.
Skye:
Good. And again, I don’t usually give a lot, but it’s so affordable so I feel comfortable referring this to you. The pricing is 99 cents. Tell me if I’m wrong. 99 cents for your younger athlete. 99 cents a month. If you’re trying to actually see the comments that coaches are writing, you can get maybe scored feedback to see comments. Is that right?
Michael:
The U14s and under the majority of the functionality within the tool is free when they receive feedback and ratings from their coaches. If they want to see the detail comments, that’s through the paywall and it’s for 99 cents a month.
Skye:
Okay.
Michael:
For the high school aged players, when they receive that feedback and the Jungo recommended schools, if they want to see the Jungo recommended schools, they have the ability to pay for it, and it’s a $1.99 a month. So it’s less than $24 a year. And you can start developing your list, and within that you start filtering schools. We have over 6,500 college coaches in our database, so they can contact schools directly through the platform itself as well.
Skye:
Excellent. I love it. So Jungo Sports, you guys can check that out. We’ll stop pushing it, but I just really wanted to get there. Lots of questions in here. So let’s chime in into a couple of these questions and then bring the conversation back here. Can you just give a quick overview of the Ivies and the possibilities that exist there?
Michael:
With the Ivy League schools?
Skye:
Yeah. There’s been a couple of questions. Michael’s asked, “Any differences with the Ivies and traditional division one you might consider?”
Michael:
No, absolutely. So obviously, the Ivy League schools do not offer athletic scholarships. So that’s first and foremost. I think that’s important. I think the challenge with Ivy League schools is that if you’re a student athlete and academically that fits within your wheelhouse, I think that’s great. Understand that if you’re also being recruited by other universities, the timeline in terms of when you would get accepted could also jam you up a little bit.
So as an example, if you’re a player and you’re looking at Princeton as an example and you’re also looking at call it Boise State University or whatever it might be. Boise State extended an offer to you and you’re on a timeline of when to accept an offer, but that timeline expires before you really know if you’re going to get accepted into that Ivy League school. So it creates challenges. Because there is the possibility you can decide to throw all your eggs in the basket of that Ivy League school and you don’t get accepted, and you’ve also passed up opportunities elsewhere to potentially play.
Skye:
Yeah. And what we ran into with my daughter is or you get accepted, but you don’t get the financial aid package that you really need to attend the school. And so it is a little tricky. I mean, the Ivy experience obviously is very similar to a division one program in terms of maybe the intensity of the requirements for being an athlete.
So a couple of questions about different clubs to play in. Sorry, youth leagues. Can you just talk about what your opinions are the differences between the ESNL, the Girls Academy who I know you all have a relationship with Jungo and the EDP, the various national leagues that are available? What is important for parents to know about the league that their child is playing in and their future?
Michael:
Yeah. I think the divisions or the leagues are going to vary for a variety of different reasons, and some clubs actually participate and compete in two or three different leagues within the club, and it might be A, B, C teams, whatever it might. But the elite platforms in the US, on the east side is MLS Next, the Girls Academy, the ENL for both boys and girls. USYS has their national league platform that’s highly competitive as well. There’s National Premier under US Club Soccer.
I mean, the development of these platforms is to consolidate talent and to make it easier for talent identification and placement or selection to whether it’s on the collegiate level or youth national teams as well. And so there is that pyramid that is created that funnels kids in that direction. However, I should add the caveat that because you may not play for an MLS Next or the Girls Academy or an ECNL team, it does not mean you don’t have a pathway to play collegiately. I want to make sure that’s understood.
Skye:
No, absolutely. It is confusing, and I hear on other groups and stuff that I’m a part of that I’m just observing parent conversations. It is confusing for parents to try to understand like, “Does my child not playing in the Girls Academy or the ECNL limit their potential?” I think it’s important that … I actually want to dive into that a little bit because so much of this process through the recruiting for our children is confusing because as parents, we want our children to live up to their potential and have the most exciting experience possible and challenge themselves. And if there’s nothing else that I want parents to get away from our conversation today is that playing in college has so many different forms. And it’s an amazing experience as long as your child finds the right space for them that suits their mentality. It does not have to be a top, top level. There’s a variety of experiences.
And I feel like we get caught into this path of having to have our child play division one, and quite frankly, I’m really happy my daughter is at a top division three school than at a lower level division one school personally because instead of battling with athletes that maybe don’t have as much skill, which a lot of times it’s how that plays out, to be really frank. I’m generalizing. Sorry, if I’m offending people. But she’s playing with some really savvy soccer players at a really high level tactically even though the athleticism might not be there with some of the players. They might be a lot smaller, but the soccer that they’re playing is beautiful. I think there’s a lot of considerations that parents need to be thinking about. I’ve said all I need to say personally in terms of trying to get those messages across to parents about that.
So let’s talk about the feedback that players can get and what should players be asking and the role that youth coach feedback plays in a child and a parent’s understanding of the potential place where an athlete can eventually play in the future?
Michael:
Yeah. That is another one of the challenges, I think, is within youth soccer. And I know there’s other topics involved with this, but the pay-to-play model causes a slight problem in that. And that is you’re telling the player and the parents what they want to hear versus what they need to hear. And I think that’s an important piece. There is the business model of player retention and whatnot, but ultimately, I think the majority of clubs do a great job in terms of providing the honest feedback that these players need, and I think that’s a part of the growth and development as players and as human beings. The ability to process information develops that emotional and psychological armor and resiliency that they need. And again, this is about empowering them.
If I don’t have the information to understand where my strengths and deficiencies are and how it relates to the platform I’m competing in, then how do I have the ability to do anything about it? And so I think getting honest feedback that you need and put it in context to paint the picture for both the players and the families is incredibly important. And so I think that’s something that on the transparency side of things is really important, because I think it should be added that if you’re a high school aged player and you’re receiving feedback from your coach that you’re completely wonderful and you should be on the national team, but that same coach is telling a college coach that they can’t play at that level, there’s a massive disconnect. And that does happen. And so I think it’s really important for the parents that they’ll support their child, that they understand the feedback that they’re getting and truly what that means.
Skye:
Excellent. Thank you. Some good questions are coming in. I know we’re saying that we have been a little esoteric with this process and thinking outside the box. Let’s talk some specifics, so specific things that parents need to be considering if their child is aspiring to play in college when they’re a freshman. What should be on their roadmap of things to do their freshman year?
Michael:
So the number one thing is academics. When it’s all said and done, to play on the college stage, the whole point is about your education. Certainly, it can lead towards other opportunities, but academics are a first and foremost because that’s going to shape a lot of what the options become later on in this process. So making sure they’re establishing strong academic rigor and good study habits. Those are important. And then at that point it’s starting to really get an idea about where you’re at as a player and start with a really big dream big list. From there you can really start refining over the course of the next two years. And I see [crosstalk 00:28:26] which that’s a different discussion.
Skye:
Yeah. No. Well, let’s chime in. So freshman year really focusing on academics, making the list really big, maybe visiting some schools and getting a sense of the type of school you might be interested in the city, in the country or not urban or smaller, bigger, getting a sense of, “This is what I feel is a right environment for me likely.” Maybe freshman year. And then sophomore year, what needs to show?
Michael:
Well, in the sophomore year that’s where the communications become really heavy. On the women side the recruitment process starts a little bit earlier than the boys, and so at that point it’s about communicating with those schools of interest, developing that list, starting to take visits when you’re traveling with your club teams, when you’re in certain cities, take the time to go visit and walk around campus, get a feel for it, communicating with those college coaches for sure and then showcasing. It’s going to be an important part of that process. And that’s whether you’re inviting them to training sessions or scrimmages or games or tournaments, whatever it might be. But communication becomes very important at that point.
Skye:
Yeah. For parents that are asking, it’s identifying the schools, communicating with them to see if there’s any mutual interest, making sure your child is seen by them. And we can talk about that because there’s some questions about ID camps and this and that. And then working to find that mutual interest from the school that suits your child academically and suits you as a family financially.
So can you answer the question here? And then let’s just [inaudible 00:30:11]. So junior year, what’s happening a lot in the junior year for the recruiting process?
Michael:
So in the recruiting process of junior year schools can contact you June 15th of your junior year, division one, division two. And you can start taking official visits August 1st of your junior year. So at that point you’ll be distilling down your list by your junior year. For the early recruits, by that time they will be receiving scholarship offers and making decisions during that time, but that certainly can be extended all the way later into your senior year. So I don’t want people to panic if that’s not happening for them. But yeah, the junior year you should be taking visits, whether they’re official or unofficial, and really fine-tuning what that list looks like.
Skye:
Okay. Excellent. So I think that answered a lot of those questions. Let’s talk about ID camps, showcasing, opportunities, the variety of ways that parents can support their child in being seen by the college coaches. I’m sure you have a little list. Let’s dive through those.
Michael:
Yeah. So this has been a unique year because of the coronavirus. However, the traditional pathways obviously is going to be on the club side of things competing in one of those platforms or going to showcase and tournaments. That’s certainly one way to be seen and identified. At the college ID camps this is a very important route. There’s a lot of schools that predominantly recruit just from their ID camps alone. And I think that’s really important to understand. I think it’s great to understand that there are college ID camps where they pull in a variety of schools, so you can go and compete at a certain program or at a certain university, but they’ve got maybe 10 other college coaches there from different programs. So that’s another great opportunity to showcase as well. And then I can’t overemphasize the video side of things. Video is incredibly important. It has always been important, but it’s more important now than ever.
Skye:
Yeah. Excellent. There’s been a number of questions about COVID. So those of you who are watching that so Kelly jump in, Kelly is my colleague at Soccer Parenting. She’s going to be monitoring some of these chats and trying to make sure that everyone’s questions are answered and stuff. So thank you, Kelly, for joining us. She popped off her video, but you can see her name is still up there.
So let’s talk about ID camps. We went down that road of ID camps, and that gets expensive pretty quickly if you don’t have your search narrowed. So what’s your recommendation on choosing ID camps?
Michael:
I would be very selective. As I alluded to earlier, it’s like get the most bang for the buck. A lot of kids will focus in on certain universities and they’ll attend their camps for two or three years with the idea that’s where they want to go to school. And sometimes it becomes problematic because … Just understand, with some of these ID camps, it is a business. They want return customers. And so sometimes the feedback they receive in terms of player evaluations can also be interpreted as, “Boy, that’s a school that’s interested in me,” when often that may not be the case.
There’s definite messaging that’s different in terms of come back to our camp as opposed to are we recruiting you? But again, get more bang for the buck in terms of maximum exposure. If it’s a school that you really want to go to and it is a good fit, by all means attend those camps, but make sure you’re having conversations with those coaches to really find out if there is interest. And if there is mutual interest, then by all means continue, but if not, then you might have to reconsider.
Skye:
Yeah. That brings me to a question that I got online from somebody. It says, “We’ve received a few emails from college soccer coaches for our son who’s a high school junior, but how can we tell if they’re really interested? We can tell if they’re interested at the division two and division three level, but since we are in a division one dead period, those division one coaches to ask us to send film, and then we do. They say, ‘Thanks, keep sending more film.’ Well, that’s been going on for over a year now, sending them film, them asking for more film. Are they truly interested, or is this something and the only thing they can see since they’re in this dead period?”
Michael:
Yes to everything. Sometimes it is, in fact, a way they can communicate their interest. Sometimes it’s just a generic mass email. The best way to decide for that, quite frankly, is to have their coach reach out to that college program, which I’ve done a number of times saying, “We’re getting a lot of these emails from this player in particular. I know she’s been communicating with you or he’s been communicating with you about their interest. Have you seen this player play, number one? Number two, is there genuine interest?” That certainly is helpful, but it does require the coach engaging and being a part of that process.
Skye:
Do you think it’s okay for the player to make that phone call if they’re comfortable doing that? That’s a great life skill.
Michael:
No, absolutely. I understand that’s a little more problematic because of NCAA rules.
Skye:
Oh, right. Yeah, they can’t.
Michael:
Yeah. I honestly think the more a player can take ownership and engage in the process and drive communication, it sends such a great message to the college coach. It’s just, “Look at this kid and the confidence. They’re very bold.” It’s a great thing to do, and that says a lot about the character and integrity of a kid.
Skye:
Yeah. I think sometimes you have to go for the no. You have to say, “This is the school I’m interested. Are you really interested in me?” And see what their response is. And I know youth coaches I hear a lot from them about how overwhelmed they are with this communication process, and there’s a lot for them to take on with helping players find college experience. And so I would also be very clear in an email that as a parent or a player that you send to your club coach saying, “Can you please contact this school? This is the coach’s name. This is their phone number. I’ve received eight emails from them and sent back and forth. I’m very interested in this school. Can you see, one, have they seen me play? Two, are they actually interested in me? Three, can I add this to my shortlist of schools that I’m considering? Should I add?” Maybe something as specific as that just coming to mind right away.
Michael:
Absolutely.
Skye:
Okay. So let’s try to give a little bit of hope here. I have some messages from parents that are like, “Oh, my child plays in this league, so not in the ESNL or not in the Girls Academy or not in MLS Next.” I’m not sure what league it is, and I don’t know if it’s a boy or girl. So they’re at a distinct disadvantage for the college recruiting process. How would you respond to that if you’re not in one of those top handful of leagues that you mentioned?
Michael:
Yeah. I don’t know if I’d necessarily call it a disadvantage. I think so much of it is going to be about the communication side of things and the engagement. There are certain showcase events that your team can certainly compete in that’s outside of those platforms that would be beneficial, but again, I think driving the communication is just so important. The more a player communicates with those programs, it demonstrates the level of interest. And by doing that it puts them on that college radar.
And so if they’re diligent with the communications, that should result in some type of evaluation that will happen. So you may not be in front of as many college coaches as frequent without playing in one of those platforms, but it doesn’t mean you will not be evaluated and have those opportunities.
Skye:
So you just have to be more diligent potentially.
Michael:
Definitely.
Skye:
A little bit more intentional and diligent and maybe thinking about attending ID camps, going to the camps and making sure they can see you.
Michael:
Right.
Skye:
Can you also give some hope? And let’s be a voice of encouragement for parents out there whose children are sophomores, juniors and are really struggling through COVID. What are you seeing as trends with the college recruiting process and COVID?
Michael:
Yeah. I would say just continue to be patient. There’s been a lot of different things that have impacted this. The ability for college programs to keep their seniors, give them another year of eligibility. That’s impacting the number of players that they’re bringing at the ’21s or the ’22 grads. But again, you might also have to shift in terms of the schools you were looking at. You might have to once again reestablish a new list or expand on the list that you originally had and then go down the other path. And then lastly, I would say you may need to buy yourself more time, which may result in pursuing the junior college route if you’re really determined to want to play on the college stage for four year.
Skye:
Yeah. I’ve heard a lot of parents who are doing that. I almost wanted my daughter, “Just go back to college. Take this semester off. It’s so in-between right now. I want you to have this great experience.” So yeah, I think it’s time for us to think outside the box a little bit and see. I mean, the college coaches are also struggling with recruiting. This is affecting all parties on all levels. And I think this process is going to be just a little bit different. But there is value in video, so even though they don’t have tournaments. So what are some things that parents can do through COVID? You already mentioned how important video is. Can you give a little bit more guidance and thought on ways that that can help?
Michael:
Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we’re actually doing with the GA is what’s called a virtual showcase. So as an example, we’re doing … This information anybody can do, clubs can do. We’re also happy to help them put something like that together, but the idea is to create digital match-ups with teams and show full game footage, and then from there have the ability from rosters to connect with players directly and see the feedback that they’re getting from their coaches and be able to see unlimited highlight videos. But again, the communications, the videos, any way you can get in front of these college coaches. Obviously, it’s going to be digitally right now. I think it’s incredibly important.
There are still college programs that do have ID camps. Again, I’d continue to pursue those as well. But again, be diligent. Anytime you can put your name on their screen and it shows your determination, at some point they will respond. And that’s what you’re looking for. And to your point earlier, it’s a yes or a no. And sometimes it stings a little bit if it’s a no, but at least you know and you can move on.
I just wanted to plant this one seed too. When families are looking at schools and some certain schools of interest, be sure you look at their game schedules because that’s going to guide you and lead you towards other schools that are very similar so they can also end up landing on your list of schools of interest.
Skye:
Yeah. No, I appreciate you saying that. That’s actually how things played out with my daughter a lot is that she found one school and then other conference schools within that conference. We felt like those were good levels. So that’s great advice.
Jason’s asking if you think the college coaches are actually watching live stream events that are happening.
Michael:
I mean, yes, they are. I can tell you that it’s been a hit and miss in regards to how effective those live videos have been. One of the challenges, and this is why I think recording videos is a little bit easier is because they can stop, speed up, rewind, those types of things, the live feeds. It’s a great idea, and it’s a great solution to our current challenges. They are watching, no question, but there are challenges with really being able to identify whether it’s the quality of the video, the interruptions, whatever it might be. Yes, they are watching, but there’s some challenges related to that.
Skye:
So talk about an ideal highlight film, real, whatever that a parent would help their child create. What would be on it? What needs to be the considerations there?
Michael:
Well, I think for field players, so outside of being a goalkeeper, they need to see all of it. They need to see the before, the action itself and the after. So it’s just not, “Here’s my first touch. I connected my pass,” and you cut. Because the coaches want to see what you’re doing before in terms of your starting positions. They also want to see what you’re doing after to support whatever actions you just did. And so I think the attacking, the defending. I think one of the pictures that I’d really love for all parents to take away with it’s just when you’re watching the game and players as well when you’re assessing, it’s like what contributions are you making to your team and the game itself?
And what we value in soccer is possession. Can you keep the ball? Can you play positively and connect on a consistent basis? You’re defending, that’s incredibly important. If you’ve got a competitive edge, when you lose possession of the ball, you take that personal. And so defending is incredibly important. Do you embrace the physical aspects of the game? And then the areas of creating goal-scoring chances for yourself and others and then also scoring goals for sure. So if within your video you can demonstrate any of those things or all of those things, it’s going to have a huge impact.
Skye:
Yeah. I mean, a key takeaway for there that I see mistakes parents making is making the video clips too short. So I think a college coach would like the player to be identified, and if you can find four to five minutes even of footage where they’re highly involved, that would be great. And if it does need to be a clip, just make it a little bit longer on either side of that.
If you’re a goalkeeper, the saves are great and important. The distribution is important. How you’re supporting your defense is important, your vertical positioning, and your integration with the team might be key to a coach’s evaluation of you. And then I also think getting into some training. Demonstrating a training session is fine as well, and I know that trainers and coaches are happy to help goalkeepers especially create those types of videos. Do field players do those too? It’s funny I don’t know that just because of my goalkeeping background. I imagine having like technicals to just be able to see the player and getting a sense of how they move is good too.
Okay. Lots of questions here. Who do you reach out to, head coach, assistant coach, all the coaches on a roster?
Michael:
For college coaches?
Skye:
Yeah.
Michael:
So with communications, I would include them all because some are more responsible to respond than others. Some are focused fully on the recruiting side of things, but I think it’s important to include all the staff.
Skye:
Yeah. Okay. Going back to the video here, a question came in from anonymous attendee, “So if the pass doesn’t connect and the team doesn’t keep possession, should you take that little clip off the highlight video?”
Michael:
So if a pass doesn’t connect. If that’s the fault of the pass, I probably wouldn’t include it, but if it’s the fault of the first touch of the player receiving it, I wouldn’t be too concerned with that.
Skye:
Yeah. Good. So you’re just giving some insights there. A question from Michael, “Are there any positions that are more highly recruited?”
Michael:
Well, certainly you can never have too many goalscorers. It’s a very difficult thing to do. I would say goalkeeping, so fantastic goalkeepers are highly recruited. Goalscorers, lots of goalscorers and consistent goalscorers for sure. You have defensive players that are the rock and do that job extremely well are very important. So anywhere where there’s pivotal backbone type players: goalscorers, defenders, creators, as well as the shot-stoppers that are tending the net. But it goes back to how they impact the game. So what’s that strong contribution that they make? But if you also have players that are really adaptable and they make impacts playing in different positions, that’s also a highly sought out player.
Skye:
Yeah. And also I think it plays out with a college program what they might be looking for and where they have a void in their system. So if they’re graduating two seniors that both play in the back, then obviously for that recruiting class they’ll be heavily recruiting somebody that fits their need. And it also depends a little bit on their style of player. If they play more like a wing back, they’re going to be looking for that type of player. So a little bit of this is how a player falls into the system that the team plays in and what openings, if you will, the coaches have in the different positions.
Michael:
Right. And I will just add also that some programs just straight up try to get the best players possible. I mean, my daughter played forward. She ended up playing right back collegiately. Again, adaptability is really important.
Skye:
Yeah. I think that’s a great comment. Coaches are really just looking for the soccer IQ and athleticism in many ways. Where should players post their highlight videos?
Michael:
So there’s a variety of platforms that are out there. You can do it on YouTube. There’s [inaudible 00:48:08]. There’s video. There’s all kinds of platforms that are out there. I know within our platform it supports anybody and any platform as long it has a URL link. But yeah, I mean, they can create on their laptop and upload it to YouTube. And that’s just the [inaudible 00:48:27].
Skye:
Yeah. I think coaches are really apt to find things that are made accessible and available via YouTube or other platforms. Gosh, so many questions. I’m trying to figure out how I want to wrap this up because I know we’re here. So I, just to give people a heads up, will answer some of these questions socially over the course of the next week. So I’ll chime some of these out, and I’ll hashtag Jungo Sports, so you can find them. And we’ll keep answering some of these questions in the future. I do want to make sure we get to some more. The value of ODP.
Michael:
I think especially for players that are not competing in the GA, MLS or ECNL as an example, it’s a fantastic platform. And I say that because if your goal and motivation is and you have the ambition you want to make the US national team, there’s only so many pathways to really do that, to be honest with you. So while US Soccer is evaluating talent within the GA and MLS and ECNL, ODP is another viable platform and pathway to reach those elite opportunities as well as additional exposure to college coaches.
Skye:
Yeah. When I was growing up that was my perks in the national team was playing through ODP, and there’s a lot of other options now. I would also say that ODP has changed in different areas and areas where there’s really heavy influence of MLS Next and Girls Academy. Those athletes just don’t have time or capacity to play at ODP as well. So in certain states ODP still has a really strong influence and is very important for development and has some great coaches, but every system and every state is a little different there as well whereas it used to be the pathway. I would ask around and get feedback on the program that’s local to you, and then if your child has the capacity and they’re scheduled to play because of the league that you’re playing in or whatever, then certainly it’s a good option.
So the role that high school coaches. David’s mentioning. I agree that I’ve been referring club coach. In my mind that’s like your coach when you’re in the high school age. So obviously, we’re talking about high school coaches as well. What role do high school coaches themselves play, and how important is playing high school to the college recruiting process?
Michael:
I think high school coaches play an important role from the standpoint of they’re getting these players that used to play high school. They have them for two and a half, three months. And so they obviously do influence their opportunities. There are college programs that will reach out to high school coaches. And some high school coaches do have good connections with college programs. It does vary. It varies greatly in terms of the college placement side of things as it relates to high school because it’s predominantly done through club. However, anywhere where you can get support, I think that’s important. I think the high school coach and their input is highly valued as well.
Skye:
Yeah, excellent. And I also think we need to talk real about high school. Some high school programs are phenomenal and they have great coaches. Oftentimes it’s a biology teacher that has no soccer experience that is doing it because they can’t find anyone. So it really depends. I think we need to be really clear. It is a hard question to answer because there’s such a variety just like there’s a variety of quality of club coaches as well, to be clear, but oftentimes in high school it’s a great collegiate experience in the community that you have, but the coach might not be very qualified. And that coach might not really be able to have that conversation with a college coach that’s recruiting. And the athletic director might not know anything about soccer, or they might know a ton. It just really is so situational. It’s hard to funnel these answers into very specific clear things. So that’s why it’s so important the role that Soccer Parenting plays in making sure that parents feel empowered, that you know that some high schools are great and some have coaches that are extremely well-intentioned.
Michael:
What I can add to that is that if you’re a player that’s not competing for a club, as an example, and you’re playing in the local leagues, whatever it might be, as well as high school and you want to play collegiately, it is going to be much more challenging to do that. But there are opportunities that can come from that, but it’s probably going to be within your general area, so local colleges can come and watch you play. It is possible. It’s just not traditional.
Skye:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So we are getting here to the end, and there are really so many questions. Really, this is just a demonstration of how much need there is to continue to have these conversations. So we’ll have to have you back and do like just a Q&A where we just dive into questions and quick answers. I’m up for that.
Michael:
Absolutely. Definitely.
Skye:
Can I get a commitment, Michael?
Michael:
Absolutely. I’d love to.
Skye:
All right.
Michael:
I’m already thinking of a number of things I would have loved to have gone over that I know is so important as well.
Skye:
I know. And so we’ll continue to push out some content about this as well because we do know that there are so many questions. I would say that the biggest thing that you can do, as a parent, and I’ll be interested in maybe recap comments that you have, but is to really use this important time through the college recruiting process as a time to really empower your child with some incredible life lessons. Picking up the phone when they’re able to or sending an email. It’s hard and can be stressful for some of our young athletes to do this, and there’s going to be lots of anxiety.
And these are great life lessons of practicing that phone call and the questions you’re going to ask and rehearsing it as a family and then them doing it and celebrating it or learning from it, reflecting. So there’s so many great things, but more than anything what I would encourage parents to do is to try to have the most real conversations that you can and try to be as direct as you can when you are communicating with the college coaches. Similar to what we said like, “Are you recruiting in these positions?” And asking some direct questions to get some direct answers and getting past the in-betweenness and forming real relationships and real connections and seeing if it will work for your child.
There were a lot of questions from parents about the quality of the college coach and the culture on the team and the style and the quality of the level. I know there’s lots of questions about that. You’re going to find out once you can try to peel back some layers. And so we have to support our children in trying to figure out how to peel back those layers.
To reference what Michael said from the very beginning, know yourself. This is helping our children know themselves better so that they can ask those questions, peel back those layers and find the school that really suits them academically, emotionally, soccer-wise, financially and fits all those [inaudible 00:55:57]. Because there is a school for everyone. We just need to broaden our search and think outside the box a little bit,
Michael, wrap-up comments from you?
Michael:
No, just if your child has the ability and has the ambition, I want you to know they have a chance.
Skye:
Yeah. Excellent. I totally agree. It comes down to mentality of your child. And if they don’t, they don’t. Or that they could find another opportunity. That’s a great comment to end on.
Parents, thank you so much. I will keep these questions. And like I said, I’ll be pushing them out socially, so be sure to follow and search that hashtag. So it’ll be #jungosports with no dash in between it like the website. But every time we answer one of those questions this week, I’ll go ahead and hashtag that, so you can search that hashtag and see if you see any responses there to your questions. Lots of thank-yous coming in.
So Michael, thank you so much for your time today. Can you also as we wrap up give one last shout-out to the app and where people can find it since it is such a great value and a great tool?
Michael:
No, absolutely. You can download it from IOS, so Apple store, as well as Google Play Store for Android. Again, it’s great for coaches, great for discovering talent ID, college coaches. Majority of the functionality is great for players. It’s a great tool to share with your kids in terms of the transparency, in terms of the feedback that they’re receiving. So it can be a very helpful tool for sure.
Skye:
Excellent. So thank you so much everyone for your time today. And Michael, again, thank you for your time.
Michael:
Thank you.
Skye:
We look forward to bringing more conversations about all this in the future and to connecting with you all. So thanks.
Michael:
Take care, everybody. Thank you.